lookin over version 10 now.... if your the type that just-gotta-have,  it's available  in download form today and cd in a few weeks.... right now only the qc version is available....  version 10 for esignal due out later....

first thing i noticed was it contains a prior unseen facet.... a license manager  .... when you install the version 10 there is a strong possibility that any prior versions on the same computer will have their licenses removed at least temporarily.... even if you have renamed the folders to equis9, equis9.1 or so on.... will look into that deeper later....

 a standout new feature would be the new style chart periodicity almost unlimited format.... you can have 90 minute charts , 300 minute(5 hour) charts and  even 233 minute charts... a fibonaccier's dream....

 the advertised  indicator, expert and template by rahul mohindar look very promising.... thanks rahul.....

i also noticed roy's subtle suggestions at making the windows resizable finally bore fruit.... all the editors, expert, indicator, explorations , can be resized to full screen.... speaking of the explorer, it now has 12 columns.... 

there are several other neat features that escape me at the moment.... all in all, equis's version 10 product page really is under reporting the long awaited changes ........ more on it later......

in the  fwiw department , still only 6 inputs allowed and poor zigzag is still last on the list..... hey,  we can't have everything......h

to give the resizing windows some scope, ordinairly i could see about 17 indicators at one time, same for experts, explorations..... now i can see over 70 at a time..... thats nice.....

another wish list item was for meta to remember prior placement of the indicator, exploration and such windows... even to the extent of placing those windows on a second monitor not associated with the meta program..... it now remembers and replaces the window in the last used location.... an important reminder would be, before scaling back to one monitor from many, be sure to place all meta windows on the single monitor before shutting down meta..... this is only an issue when reverting to fewer monitors......

to give the indicator builder window some scope, before i could see only about 8 or 9 lines..... now i can see over 50 and those 50 span the complete monitors width.... should lower my use of notepad considerably.....

the data window now contains the experts trend, if one is applied.....

Do they really expect to sell upgrades with the "license manager" that only benefits Equis?

I have a backup laptop, in case of problems (this is MY money on the line, using THEIR product), and the initial "CD Check" was annoying enough, as it was unexpected.  Understandable, but annoying.

After a virus/worm/whatever sneaked in last November, I had to pull the plug, backup in safe mode, and wipe the disk.  A license manager sounds like a recipe for serious customer annoyance.  On top of all the other recovery problems (like time cost)  involved in getting a new or recovering system back up & running, this would cause undue delay.

Plus, there's nothing about improved memory management, fixing the failure-prone "Favorites" system (or even a "clean up" utility for it) , a fix for the "Equidistant Channels" that move around between saves, a "crippled" the System Tester in the EOD version (you can't OPT for stops) and still nothing with which to clean up the data and add new issues to the appropriate folder.

A doubtful upgrade...no serious work, just cosmetic improvements which should have been in a maintenance release.

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--Johnathan

hayseed:

i also noticed roy's subtle suggestions at making the windows resizable finally bore fruit.... all the editors, expert, indicator, explorations , can be resized to full screen.... speaking of the explorer, it now has 12 columns.... 

[snip]

to give the resizing windows some scope, ordinairly i could see about 17 indicators at one time, same for experts, explorations..... now i can see over 70 at a time..... thats nice.....

another wish list item was for meta to remember prior placement of the indicator, exploration and such windows... even to the extent of placing those windows on a second monitor not associated with the meta program..... it now remembers and replaces the window in the last used location.... an important reminder would be, before scaling back to one monitor from many, be sure to place all meta windows on the single monitor before shutting down meta..... this is only an issue when reverting to fewer monitors......

to give the indicator builder window some scope, before i could see only about 8 or 9 lines..... now i can see over 50 and those 50 span the complete monitors width.... should lower my use of notepad considerably.....

    Those are all nice things, but should have been part of version 3, or at the least a 9.2 release (resizeable windows?  C'mon . . . . that's basic; I'm still astounded that a mature Version 9.x application would still have indicator/expert windows as cramped and nonadjustable as they are, but glad it's finally fixed) -  as someone with 3 monitors (and 4 by next week), better multimonitor support would be welcome, so that's nice to see.  I'm still not getting Integer-Number-Upgrade gotta-have-it vibes from this one yet, though, and especially waiting to find out more about exactly how onerous the new license scheme has become.

    Looking forward to more detailed reports.

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When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you - when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice - you may know that your society is doomed. - Ayn Rand

hey johnathan and jim.... the license manger could be for our beneifit as much as equis's.... it caught me off guard but nothing is lost.... i still have all prior cd's and the programs are still on my machines.....

to open any of the prior metas require's reinserting that cd..... something that i've yet to do..... but just shootin from the hip i'd say my days of multiple metas on one machine are gone........ thats okay, after seein 10 its doubtful i'd ever move back to 9, 9.1, or 9.2, unless esignals version 10 does not become available.....

it cost less than 200 bucks to upgrade, which is far far less than my average trade loss..... i've only had metastock for about 2 years now and it had always appeared a work in progress, like all progressive programs...... it appears 200 well spent..... 

 

and thanks to rett in sales and  keli last night on tech support.....   h

Hayseed, I've noticed that you, Jose, Wabbit and some others have noted keeping multiple old versions on your machines, but I assumed that was just for compatibility-testing of code you guys were either selling or posting on this forum.  Were you actually using older releases because you found some features or usability had degraded in the newer versions?

I fail to see how a more-restrictive license manager works to our benefit, unless we assume that protecting Equis' interests more aggressively would give them more resources to do wondrous things for the legit users.

Personally, I don't have a problem proving to Equis or its software that I'm a legitimate owner, but I don't want to have to do it every time (not saying v10 requires this, but I've seen it elsewhere) and object to software doing so intrusively and in ways that limit flexibility and/or usability like installing on multiple machines that only I use or preventing use of older versions (from your comments, it appears the latter isn't going to be a problem, right?).

As a business owner (both technology and service-type businesses over the years) I've found that if my customers realize I understand their interests it works to benefit my interest as well.

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When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you - when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice - you may know that your society is doomed. - Ayn Rand

Copy protection has no benefit to the customer.  If/when a better product comes along, it doesn't do much in the way of goodwill for the vendor, either -- look at what happened to Lotus 1-2-3, and how quickly it happened.  Nobody likes anyone else to assume they are a thief.

I looked at a LOT of packages before deciding on Metastock; unfortunately, I didn't save my comparison work, so now I'll have do it all again.  No hurry, but it'll have to be done, as seeing Equis focus effort on copy-protection, rather than product repair & improvement, is a very, very bad sign.

You will NEVER be able to return to a previous version, once you have saved any chart or template, as they are version-specific.  Probably all indicators, explorations & system tests.  If you don't have a backup, and have saved anything, you are stuck with the new version.

 

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--Johnathan

jjstein:

I looked at a LOT of packages before deciding on Metastock; unfortunately, I didn't save my comparison work, so now I'll have do it all again.  No hurry, but it'll have to be done, as seeing Equis focus effort on copy-protection, rather than product repair & improvement, is a very, very bad sign.
 

I wouldn't be hasty to turn thumbs-down, Johnathan; I've seen companies get aggressive and then back down in a firestorm of nasty feedback if the new tactics are too annoying.  A recent example is Intuit, which a few years ago put a nasty registration/protection routine into TurboTax - and promptly lost a tremendous amount of market share to TaxCut the very same year, once word got around.  

They yanked the new scheme the following year, but there's still lasting negatives as a result: I switched to TaxCut that year, liked it, and have never switched back to TurboTax so they've probably lost me for good.

And of course there are examples like the one you cited: Lotus 1-2-3, which went from being an ambitious, market-owning #1 product to a despised company in just 2 or 3 years when they moved to copy-protected floppies, dongles and the like.

Let's wait for more details from actual users and give Equis a chance before slamming it too badly.  On the other hand, if the new scheme is a PITA, blowtorch 'em!

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When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you - when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice - you may know that your society is doomed. - Ayn Rand

hey jim.... i do have a undisclosed "goal" involving metastock but selling anything is not part of it..... i'll help where i can , no strings, presumtions or bills attached.....

i switch back and forth between versions for several reasons..... the primary reason is 9.1 and 9.2 are for quotecenter and version 9 is for esignal........ 

your second paragraph was my thinking also.... jack daniels bottom line improved when the moonshiners were put out of business.... which probably allowed jack to improve that 90 proof.....

the license manager, for me,  now appears as a  non-event, so i have yet to look at it any closer..... it just caught me off guard , thats all..... however, i would have installed 10 on a different comupter had i known of  it.... but no biggie either way....

we can still use our other versions, just possibly not on the same computer.....  but the very  positive  changes in 10 will almost assure that i will not......

and btw equis upper management,  whoever rewrote those help files deserves a big christmas bonus....  job well done..... a big improvement......h

 

Not being hasty, really -- it's not a bad idea to keep up with what else is out there, every so often.  It's just that now there's reason other than keeping up-to-date on the technology.

My previous list of fixes/bugs/crippled features actually bothers more than the copy protection -- it clearly shows the company's focus is not on product quality.  To get up to version 9+ and have silly bugs like Channels moving away from where they were placed is beyond my understanding.

I don't need multiple versions installed, but am at a stage where I want to alt-TAB between separate layouts at the same time -- ie:  Broad Market indicators vs. equities -- since you can't start multiple instances of Metastock (multi-tasking OS & dual-processors notwithstanding).  A simple copy of the primary directory whenever changes are made will keep things in sync.  No longer possible, with future versions.

There are still people running version 7.x & 8.x; I can stick with 9.x for a few more years.

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--Johnathan

PTJim:

Hayseed, I've noticed that you, Jose, Wabbit and some others have noted keeping multiple old versions on your machines, but I assumed that was just for compatibility-testing of code you guys were either selling or posting on this forum.  Were you actually using older releases because you found some features or usability had degraded in the newer versions?

I keep the older versions mainly for development work.  I don't do a lot of real time trading so the esignal vs quotecenter thing doesn't really convern me.  I don't ever use a different version of MS just to target a particular function, although I very rarely use versions earlier then 7 with no Security() and ExtFml() functions.

I am VERY CONCERNED that I will not be able to do an installation as I would like with MS10

I have a small network at home.  I have my main machine (the desktop) which runs as a server (sometimes, damn you W. Gates!)  I have multiple versions of MS loaded on the desktop and the two laptops which have ethernet/wireless connection, depending on where I am in the house and what she-who-must-be-obeyed is doing.  Each computer has its own qualities, so I have a choice when it comes time to work.  I am the only user of MS and can only use one version at one time.

(A recommendation for MS11:
Don't badge the data files, templates, layouts, indicators, experts etc with their MS version.  Allow the user to have complete set of indicators etc stored in central location, accessible by all versions of MS.  The same goes for badging the data; one data file stored on my network should be accessible to all versions of MS.)

If the new version of MS10 is going to prevent me from having multiple versions of MS on my computer/network then I will have to seriously consider how I am going to implement the installation. 

As a customer, I would prefer it if companies who have no idea what my particular situation is, don't try to dictate terms to me.  That goes for Micro$oft (operating systems), Micro$oft (office applications), Micro$oft (development applications, programming IDEs) and Micro$oft (tools, patches, addins, Genuine Notification Advantage etc), Trend, MathWorks, Mozilla and Equis.  Companies that care little for their customers, will quickly find that soon they will have no customers to worry about.

Rules of Business:
1. The customer is always right.
2. If the cutomer is wrong, see Rule 1.
3. Even if the customer is a pain in the ass, see Rule 1.
4. The customer is always right.



wabbit

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MS: 6.52 EOD, 7.x EOD, 8.0 PRO, 9.2 PRO w/QC, 10 PRO w/QC & MDK
For custom MetaStock programming : http://www.wabbit.com.au
My SkyPE status :
My SkyPE account : wabbit.com.au

Wabbit,

If the copy-protection works as described, you won't have to worry how you will do an installation,  you'll only get to do ONE.  Period.  And any other versions on the machine will go bye-bye...

Some overpaid corporate office-boy probably got a promotion for this brain-fart.

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--Johnathan

just tossing out some ideas here ....

we could partition the hard drive .....

it appears the version 10 user agreement does not allow for the legal desktop and laptop install as before.... 1 and only 1 at a time.... or at least i haven't found the permissive launguage.....

perhaps we could install the v10 on a portable external hard drive..... thats not a bad idea overall....

your 15 digit  license number is in a text doc in the metastock folder.... the text doc name is license.... hang on to it....

this is one time we should read the user agreement in full...... read number 5 twice.....

i'll run some tests to see if the stdata file still has issues.....

btw, ot,  for those not having ms excel, google now has a  free spreadsheet web based program very similar to excel..... those are saveable on googles servers....   you might need a gmail account , not sure......  it will come in handy sorting those 12 explorer columns.....h

What's so important about number 5?

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--Johnathan

Just to provide a couple clarifying points:

-Templates are not version specific

-You can install MetaStock 10 on 2 PC's per the license agreement

-You can have version 10 and still maintain older versions.  If you are trying to maintain multiple versions you will need to export the previous version's Equis registry key (HKey_Current_User>Software), remove this key, then install version 10 (Making sure to specify a different folder than the existing versions) and Export it's registry key to a separate registry file.  You can then swap registry files whenever you want to switch back to a previous version.

-You cannot have 2 different versions of 10 on the same PC (i.e. 10 EoD and 10 Pro) because the License Manager will overlap between the 2 versions and not work properly.

hey pyradius.....   You can install MetaStock 10 on 2 PC's per the license agreement   ..... was wondering where your reading that.....

 i do see section3, the first sentence..... and i do see section 7.(2) .....

are you refering to the second paragraph in  section 3..... that seems to imply something different to me.... just wonderin thats all....

by far the simplist route is to just have a second computer for v10...... it has been a pain dealing with the quirks of seperate versions on one machine......  but as mentioned before, v10 is such a leap forward,  my 9 days are just about gone....... h

PTJim:

Hayseed, I've noticed that you, Jose, Wabbit and some others have noted keeping multiple old versions on your machines...

I have just about every EOD & Pro version of MetaStock from v6.5 to 9.1 on CD, but only use MS Pro v8.01 as this is the most forward/backward compatible version for my small group of 250 clients. Any custom code I put together in v8.01 installs perfectly in all my clients' MS versions (v8.0~v9.2) so far.

Has any MS v10 user found any problems importing their previous version's indicators/explorations/experts/templates?


jose '-)

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MetaStockTools.com

hayseed,

          Quick question does version 10 offer any kind of backtesting improvement for forex testing?

For the majority of users, I wonder what real benefit there is for migrating from version 7 or 8. The value add after these versions appear to be quite mickey mouse.

It can be frustrating, especially when comparing to competing products, such as Amibroker, and even Bullcharts, which add user requested features very quickly, and not to include these as a version x.0 upgrade.

I am so glad we have Roy, Jose, Wabbit, the original forum creators, and dll creators (such as TMW) who try to address what users want.

I wonder if the Equis marketing team have even done a product comparison lately or the last 2 years for that matter ?

hey diesel....  that might be addressed in the v10 pro-fx, that i don't have and likely will not get....... 

mine is the qc v10 pro.... when the v10 pro for esignal comes out i'll for sure get it also......  h

 

------------------------

if people haven't noticed by now, i invariably will be positive.... and that  is not by being blind to the negatives it is by surrounding myself with positives....  its just my preference....

v10 is a positive..... at least for me......h

 

 

Thank goodness for the positives, H.  No apologies necessary! You're the best!

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Traders' Consortium

Hayseed, have you tried importing your previously saved MS version 9.x's indicators/explorations/experts/templates into v10? If so, everything ok?


jose '-)

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MetaStockTools.com

hey jose.... i saw your post before but was going to reinstall this weekend  from scratch with known indicators,dlls,experts and such before answering....

i did not expect v10 to install in the manner it did so that computer is kinda topsy-turvy.....

the ksr dll from the russian dude has a splash screen that might get in the way....

 

i'll let ya know more......h

 

 

 

 

hey jose..... indicators and such import normally......

however, i would strongly suggest not installing v10 on any computer containing a prior version if you might want to revert back to even on a temporary basis.... and no mater what, be sure to  create a system restore point prior to installation.....

reverting back might be a tough  task.... i have  folders named equis9, equis9.1, and equis9.2 each containing that version...... as it stands now simply renaming the folder to plain equis will allow me to open that version.... takes a couple seconds......

v10 does not play that.... even uninstalling v10 will not allow the others to open.... curiously, even using the cd's to do a complete reinstall will not allow the programs to open.... you will get several differing error messages during the installation and meta immeadiately shuts down on start up due to missing module.....

only through uninstalling v10 and using system restore to a prior point could i get the prior versions running as before....

i need 9 for esignal running untill equis offers v10 for esignal , so i'll just keep v10qc to itself..... odds are i'll be givin dell a holler..... a early christmas, if ya know what i mean.......h